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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:17 pm 
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In Huddersfield they have one Stanton 6B (round base) column left where as you go to Brighouse we have the later version although many have been sleeved.

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:46 pm 
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I'd love to see a 6D or 6E in the flesh!

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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:45 am 
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Phosco152 wrote:
Simon Cornwell gives dates of the Stanton 6 and 7 from the 1930s. Click on the 7b link and see examples in Salisbury which appear to be late 1940s with the larger bases.

The 6B was "modified" in the 1950s went it became more streamline in the base probably to reduce costs and weight. The 7 was probably redesigned around the same time.

There are roads in Salisbury where both the big and slimmer base Stanton 7s are used with the slimmer ones perhaps replacing older (cast iron?) columns like what may have happened your way. I haven't found any decent pre 1950s pictures of Salisbury side roads to confirm.

There are however loads of 1950s pictures on the web of Salisbury City centre and these show big based Stanton 6Bs but also 6Cs and a few 6Gs.

OIder pictures do show cast iron (gas?) columns prior to that.


Thanks for that info Phosco. It seems that in the 1950s Stanton modified their whole range, replacing some of their older columns with totally new ones and updating the design of the 6 and 7 range at the same time. This is handy for identifying the rough ages of columns in my area and, in some cases, the ages of the roads they light.

Also of note is the Stanton 10 range which was introduced in 1958. This means that some parts of Blackpool and most of Fleetwood must have had their side roads relit with these columns and fluorescent lanterns during the late 50s/early 60s as there are literally thousands of these columns in my area. Prior to this the roads must have been lit with cast-iron columns. If only I could travel back in time and see what happened!

The really interesting cases are roads which have a mixture of Stanton 7 (MKII) and Stanton 10 columns, I wonder how these were originally lit.

I remember in the 80s In Fleetwood on a road called Wansbeck Avenue (built in the 50s I think) until all the columns were sleeved every column was a Stanton 10 fitted with GEC Z8256s except for one Stanton 7 (MKII) in the middle of them all fitted with (from memory) a GEC Brookvale mercury lantern. I wonder how this came to be? The mind boggles!  :?


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PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Another thing to factor in is that streetlighting would have not been used/maintained during the war years due to the blackout. In cities much of the lighting stock may have been damaged by bombing.

After the war, streetlighting would need replacement and there was also the construction of new housing stock. This would have led to a huge demand for new columns and as steel was in short supply, the use of concrete columns would have been favoured.

Cast iron columns may well have been mostly gas at that time as well, hence explaining their removal.

Hence large numbers of concrete columns being installed in the 1950s. Many of these would have been sleeved in the 70s and 80s as spalling took place and where mercury lanterns had been originally fitted, the energy crisis of that time would have also triggered the conversion to SOX, in many cases when the columns were sleeved.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:28 pm 
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Phosco152 wrote:
Another thing to factor in is that streetlighting would have not been used/maintained during the war years due to the blackout. In cities much of the lighting stock may have been damaged by bombing.

After the war, streetlighting would need replacement and there was also the construction of new housing stock. This would have led to a huge demand for new columns and as steel was in short supply, the use of concrete columns would have been favoured.

Cast iron columns may well have been mostly gas at that time as well, hence explaining their removal.


I agree. I wonder if councils got a grant off the Government back then to replace all this lighting as it must have cost a fortune? Of course these days the only way this scale of lighting replacement is carried out is via PFI schemes. Looking at my area it seems that the vast majority of the lighting stock must have been replaced in the late 40s and 50s as there are vast numbers of columns from this era. Also a lot of new housing was built in my area in this era although Blackpool and it's environs were never bombed in WWII (apparently this was because Hitler liked Blackpool and wanted to build his holiday home there - true story!). It must have cost the respective councils of the day a lot of money but that said, they got their moneys' worth as many of the columns are still going strong today!

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Hence large numbers of concrete columns being installed in the 1950s. Many of these would have been sleeved in the 70s and 80s as spalling took place and where mercury lanterns had been originally fitted, the energy crisis of that time would have also triggered the conversion to SOX, in many cases when the columns were sleeved.


Interestingly my area missed out the SOX era altogether (apart from a few intermediate roads) and when the columns were finally sleeved in the 80s/early 90s they were mostly converted from mercury/fluorescent to SON. Some 80s and 90s columns remain unsleeved and are largely in good condition.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:48 pm 
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Gramma6 wrote:
I agree. I wonder if councils got a grant off the Government back then to replace all this lighting as it must have cost a fortune? Of course these days the only way this scale of lighting replacement is carried out is via PFI schemes.


It was the same for everything though. Look at all the new schools that got built, look at all the new hospitals that got built, all the new council houses that got built, all the slum clearance and redevelopment that happened, all the town centre redevelopment that happened, all the road building that happened, all the new street lighting that was installed. The investment in Britain in the 1950s and 1960s was colossal. It was, of course, in part down to financial aid from the USA, but look at Britain's national debt at the moment. We're hugely indebted, and what have we got to show for it? A few showpieces that mask the deterioration of other public services, like the Queen Alexandra Hospital in Portsmouth, a shiny redeveloped hospital built using PFI, and used as an excuse for closing down or rationalising other local hospitals.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:12 pm 
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It makes me wonder if it hadn't been for WWII what sort of state this country would be in now? A lot of the areas that got bombed were very run-down anyway. It makes me wonder if those slum areas that were bombed would otherwise still exist today?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:40 pm 
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At the ILP meeting, Jon Hall’s presentation did not cover structural testing of concrete columns, however I was able to talk to him over lunch and this is what he told me.

His company uses a force deflection test for concrete columns. A load is applied to the column on  a 0, 90, 180, 270 axis at a certain height above the ground. The load is equivalent to the maximum design wind loading. Deflection of the column and foundation are determined (I presume by the use of fixed reference points – although I didn’t think to ask) to determine the condition of the column. Ultrasonics are also used to “listen” to the reinforcing bars. In some cases these have heard to go “ping” (not literally) when the load is applied. The sound the bars make under load can be used to determine their strength. Columns have been identified with failed reinforcing when visually they look fine.

Failure modes are spalling at the bracket join, but also around the door aperture. On one type of 5m Stanton and Staveley column, the bolts that hold the back board in can corrode splitting the concrete at the back of the gear compartment. Given there is no structure at the front – due to the aperture, this can cause the column to collapse. In West Sussex, bases of these columns are sleeved as a safeguard.

Sleeving of the bracket can also cause problems. Although the sleeve is lower weight than the bracket, if it is of additional height or outreach, this can place additional loads on the remaining column.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:54 pm 
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That's rather interesting... and may also explain why some columns round here have replacements alongside when the concretes 'look' fine.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:42 pm 
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There are a few columns which have 'sleeved bases' in Horsham, one is near to the rear entrance of Horsham's railway station but AFAIK it may have been replaced. A few are dotted around Oakhill but even these could have been replaced by now.

I do think Billingshurst has a few around Forge Way / Jengers Mead but when I saw them were in 2010 so I don't know if they have been replaced.

I'll be going back down again in a few weeks to see if anything has changed.

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