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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:03 pm 
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Whilst at Claire's last Sunday a chance discovery in one of her GEC catalogues was of local interest to sotonsteve and I. This picture which I have now identified as being Church Street in Romsey, Hampshire, dates from I guess sometime in the 1950s. Of interest is that it is the same type of CU column and GEC lantern as used in nearby Southampton. Salisbury also used open sodium lanterns but of a different design and on Stanton 6b columns. This however is the first evidence found of open sodium lanterns in south Hampshire outside of Southampton.

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Church Street 6th July 2010.

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Practically nothing has changed (buildings on background right are modern) apart from the lighting. GEC 9454 on galv hex hockey stick and a newer casual replacement of a MA90 integral gear in the background.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:40 pm 
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More from Claire's GEC catalogue, this time the Dioptrion. The catalogues states that Portsmouth was the first installation of these lanterns. Simon Cornwell's Highway Reference Book of 1951 mentions the Dioptrion so it is fairly safe to say the picture below must be circa 1950/51.

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The same location - junction of Copnor Road and Old London Road looking west today.

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The road has been widened and realigned so it is not possible to take a picture in exactly the same position. The trees have grown, the building has had new windows and a lick of paint but it is still there. Even the advertising bill board is also there, although a bit more up to date.

The Dioptrions are long gone, replaced in the late 1960s with Stewart and Lloyd columns with large curved brackets and Alpha 5s running SOX. These were gone by the 1990s, the current Stainton columns and ZX3s being their replacements. Behind the camera it is a sea of galvanised Mallatite columns and Iridiums.

Other early 1950s images of Portsmouth also show Dioptrions and post war lighting also consisted of Clearmains and Lewishams, some of which survived to the 1960s. Yet low pressure sodium in Eleco HW509s was used in areas just outside Portsmouth during the early 1950s and there are also images of that era showing low pressure sodium within the city. Perhaps mercury was having its final swansong in Portsmouth and GEC were keen to fight off the more efficient and increasingly popular sodium lighting?


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:28 pm 
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I think that GEC catalogue was from 1948. Certainly, there were Dioptrons in Portsmouth by 1949 as there was a picture of some in Paulsgrove in 1949.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Another page from Claire's GEC catalogue, this image is the one that GEC states that Portsmouth was the first installation of Dioptrions. Note the remains of an older column that the Dioptrions are replacing can just be seen in the left foreground.

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I believe I have found the location of that picture - looking north along Copnor Road towards the junction with Norway Road.

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Like the previous Then and Now, the road has been widened and realigned in the background. The railings on the left in the black and white image are just out of shot in my image to the left. PFI Iridiums dominate the scene.

Note the ring of concrete in the foreground in the grass, the remains of a foundation for a casual replacement column removed when the Iridiums were installed 2 years ago.

This older image was taken from across the road from approximately where the 2nd Iridium column is now located, just where the car is.

My prediction of the demise of traction poles was a little premature as one still survives.

Referring back to the black and white GEC image, note the position of the decorative rings on the column, compare with this  image taken approximately 3 and a half years ago, a few hundred yards behind the GEC camera position. The rings look identical. So was this one of the remaining "GEC" columns - it was the only one left with the rings - if so it was 60 years old when removed.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:02 pm 
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Phosco152 wrote:
My prediction of the demise of traction poles was a little premature as one still survives.


Makes me wonder if the three remaining columns along Long Wall, the B6114 in Elland has something similar if not hey could be the same minus the top entry spigot.

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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Phosco152 wrote:
Another page from Claire's GEC catalogue, this image is the one that GEC states that Portsmouth was the first installation of Dioptrions. Note the remains of an older column that the Dioptrions are replacing can just be seen in the left foreground.

Image

I believe I have found the location of that picture - looking north along Copnor Road towards the junction with Norway Road.

Image

Like the previous Then and Now, the road has been widened and realigned in the background. The railings on the left in the black and white image are just out of shot in my image to the left. PFI Iridiums dominate the scene.

Note the ring of concrete in the foreground in the grass, the remains of a foundation for a casual replacement column removed when the Iridiums were installed 2 years ago.

This older image was taken from across the road from approximately where the 2nd Iridium column is now located, just where the car is.

My prediction of the demise of traction poles was a little premature as one still survives.

Referring back to the black and white GEC image, note the position of the decorative rings on the column, compare with this  image taken approximately 3 and a half years ago, a few hundred yards behind the GEC camera position. The rings look identical. So was this one of the remaining "GEC" columns - it was the only one left with the rings - if so it was 60 years old when removed.


S&L were the biggest producer of traction poles. The ornate cast iron embellishment rings just slipped over the tops of the poles and rested on the stepped sections of the poles. There are a handful of these types of traction poles in Nottingham (now none streetlighting), and at least one with the embellishments on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:56 pm 
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Interesting info there Claire, so it looks like that column I pictured was the only one which retained the rings. This identical column from nearby (and all the others) must have had the rings removed long ago. The steps you mention can clearly be seen.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:43 pm 
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Embellishment kits are still used today on new housing estates and on replacement columns in many of Colchester's streets. I originally thought columns like this had been specially ordered in at great expense, until my contact gave the secret away. It was quite a surprise to discover that such decorated columns are in fact plain old Corus poles in disguise.

I just hope the crews don't treat those embellishment rings like a fairground game!


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:52 pm 
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Phosco152 wrote:
Interesting info there Claire, so it looks like that column I pictured was the only one which retained the rings. This identical column from nearby (and all the others) must have had the rings removed long ago. The steps you mention can clearly be seen.


Possibly, but it may have been a replacement for a knockdown in the distant past. The embellishments were fussy extras that added cost, so many trolleybus and tram operators lived without them in later years, and not all of them bothered fitting them from the outset, especially as the municipal transport departments were answerable to the ratepayers.


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 Post subject: Re: Now and then
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:37 pm 
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There are some manufacturers out there now who do make ornate columns made to look like the old types... but in the vast majority of modern installations made to look 'traditional', it is just a plain simple column with embelishments on. In the York market, the columns there are just standard BS columns with embelishments and an Urbis Abbey on the top... the columns that replaced York's Revo Festivals are ordinary ones with embelishments - and at the time of the embelishments being fitted, I was having a chat with one of the bucket crew and he really doesn't like them: they're fiddly to install and at the end of the day are still not the real thing.

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