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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:31 pm 
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It is interesting to me that I find the local Radio Controlled lamps light around 30 mins earlier and stay on 30 mins longer than the neighbouring NEMA Celled SOX/low wattage SON lamps.

Surely this must cancel out some of / most of the energy saving from the dimming.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:01 pm 
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I do not know your location, but around here, the burning hours are significantly reduced with the Harvard system compared to 55 Lux PEC switching - let alone 70 Lux.

I am not an expert on CMS, and what the actual Lux level at switch on is I do not know - as far as I am concerned it is too dark.

I would say that half an hour of lit time is being saved at dusk and another half hour at dawn, which, on the assumption of 4000 burning hours p.a. under photocell control, is a reduction of around 9%

I am sure I recently read some industry figures that trimming produces a saving of about 2.5 -3% in energy usage. Something simply does not add up!!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:33 pm 
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The system I refer to is Bolton MBCs

I have a sneaky suspicion that the light level is not taken into account and they use a time based system.

I suspect that the lack of savings must be due to all the extra dayburners!   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :oops:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:54 pm 
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All CMS/RF node schemes utilise a photocell in the master node to determine switching times.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:02 pm 
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You can specify the switching levels when the branch node is ordered,  commonly 55:28. There is also the facility to trim all or individual nodes manually. This could mean that a set of lights in a dark alley or something could be set to light up 5 minutes earlier than the other lights for example. Or you could select your led lanterns to come on a bit later due to the lack of warmup time.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:17 am 
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Phosco152 wrote:
All CMS/RF node schemes utilise a photocell in the master node to determine switching times.



Bolton MBC use the Lucy Zodion Vizion (WiMAC) system

In the PDF about this is says that

http://lucyzodion.com/wp-content/upload ... mation.pdf

Quote:
• Provides control:
Activation type (Photocell, Time or Solar Timeclock)
8 seven daytime profiles per collector, each with 12
events to allow multi-stage dimming
Unlimited seven day profiles per host



I think it would be very easy to squeeze out another 40 - 60 mins of off time each day simply by having a photocell over-ride on the system.... What will happen during a solar eclipse? The next significant partial is due March 20th, so I guess we won't have long to find out!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:59 pm 
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I'm not convinced you understand what is meant by a solar timeclock. Sun rise and sunset times can be predicted decades in advance based on the movements of the planets and the sun. Predictions can also be refined to allow for different latitudes.

A solar eclipse has no bearing on this as it doesn't affect sun rise or sun set.

The disadvantaged of just relying on switch times calculated this way, is that weather also affects the perceived brightness at the calculated switch on time. If the solar timeclock has calculated the time point to create a 100 Lux switch point, a wet cloudy day may actual mean the 100 Lux point is reached earlier than the calculated time. Likewise, a clear sunny day may result in 100 Lux point being reached later than the solar prediction.

Combining solar and photocell control allows a more accurate switch point to take this into account, which is what the Lucy system (and all others) allows for.

What you don't know is how the system is configured in Bolton in terns of Lux level for switching and the control inputs. From your observations, an early switch on scheme has been adopted which as you say could be modified for further energy savings.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:53 pm 
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Phosco152 wrote:
I'm not convinced you understand what is meant by a solar timeclock. Sun rise and sunset times can be predicted decades in advance based on the movements of the planets and the sun. Predictions can also be refined to allow for different latitudes.



I am fully aware that a solar time clock is a switching device with pre-programmed on-off times based on sunrise/sunset times which you correctly state can be predicted pretty much for eternity. Some of the funkier models have compensation for BST/leap year, battery backup and offer additional switching and user defined on/off times and days.


Quote:
A solar eclipse has no bearing on this as it doesn't affect sun rise or sun set.


No, but it does have an impact if CMS does not recognize the event and leaves your lamps off.
A photocell controlled or overridden/fallback lamp/CMS system would automatically activate.


Quote:

The disadvantaged of just relying on switch times calculated this way, is that weather also affects the perceived brightness at the calculated switch on time. If the solar timeclock has calculated the time point to create a 100 Lux switch point, a wet cloudy day may actual mean the 100 Lux point is reached earlier than the calculated time. Likewise, a clear sunny day may result in 100 Lux point being reached later than the solar prediction.

Combining solar and photocell control allows a more accurate switch point to take this into account, which is what the Lucy system (and all others) allows for.


Point taken & agreed.

Quote:
What you don't know is how the system is configured in Bolton in terns of Lux level for switching and the control inputs. From your observations, an early switch on scheme has been adopted which as you say could be modified for further energy savings.


Casual observation suggests the switching times advance in the as the nights draw in and drop back as the nights draw out. If there was an ambient lux level factored in i would expect at least the odd day when this would not follow. The next time I am outbased at Bolton for  a few weeks I will make notes on the lighting up/off times and see if this follows.


I did wonder if using a system of using time only (and erring on the side of caution) would assist in a more accurate energy billing or spread the increase in demand on the grid, but I dont see it. The system could just as easily tell the energy co how many house burned and the lighting load must be relatively insignificant, given that my 10Kw shower is thrown in with impunity and that is equal to the public lighting demand of pretty much the entire housing estate!!!

I also wonder if the system procured is the full system or just a on/off and dimming system. Lamps with dead feeds, failed lamps and persistent dayburners stay unrepaired for months, until reported where upon they are fixed within the usual 2-3weeks - these should all be detected by the system.


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 Post subject: radio control switching
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:19 pm 
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In Hemel Hempstead, the council have replaced all the lights on A roads and some concrete columns on little roads with Urbis Amperas with Telensa radio control nodes. I caught the workmen replacing the lights near Tesco at about 9:30pm and after they installed them , within 5 minutes, they turned on.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:44 am 
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I have found a Telensa base station in Watford which are also doing the replacement for A road street lights.


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