Ukastle forums
http://ukastle.co.uk/discussion/

Modern lantern design discussion
http://ukastle.co.uk/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=247		 Page 4 of 8
Author:  Phosco152 [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
I would expect an Iridium (and Sapphire) - depending on size and lamp cost - to be around £120 -£300/350. While a MRL6 is probably going to be cheaper than an Arc.
Author:  Urbis Saturn Land [ Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
Alex wrote:
TBH I don't find the price too surprising given the fact the Stela is a 'novelty' lantern.

At some point in the mid-00s, I e-mailed Thorn to ask how much a single Alpha 4 costs - it was £240. I also found out that a single Alpha 2000 was £400 back then. It is therefore no surprise to see that the Arc is such an influential lantern across the UK at only £170!



Councils could save a fortune if they Jetified certain roads, as far as I know these Thorn Jets (which look very similar to an Urbis Opalo) cost somewhere around £60. So local councils could be saving £110 on each lantern alone than buying Arcs.
Author:  Stelmer [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
Interesting discussion about lantern costs. It's got me wondering how much my collection would cost new.
Author:  mazeteam [ Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
I think if our collections were all valued as new lanterns then we'd be sitting pretty on £X0,000's. I think Thorn is a bit overpriced on a lot of their products... and not just street lighting, because of things I've seen for normal office lights and emergency lights. A Newlec NL5850 Non-Maintained emergency bulkhead for 8W lamps can be picked up for round the £20 mark: the equivalent Thorn Voyager model is at least double that. The Thorn Jet has broken the trend, as it is a budget lantern at just £60 a pop (or it was when I asked a couple of years back). An Alpha 2000 costing £400 is a rip off quite frankly, and it's no wonder they weren't overly common... A QSS now costs round abouts £160 each (I don't know how much the side entry/post top spigot parts cost or if that's within the price) and heritage lanterns with advanced optics are £300-£400.
Author:  Gramma6 [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
I think Thorn might have shot themselves in the foot with their pricing policy. At one time Thorn seemed to be one of the most popular lighting manufacturers in the UK but now I'd say Urbis, Philips and WRTL are all much more popular.
Author:  mazeteam [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
Also add in their strange 'sell each bit separate' policy and it all makes everything cost more. They would give the standard 'corporate' response of "it allows for an easier inventory as each part can be stocked separate" - no it doesn't! If you want 100 Alpha 4s you're going to want them all with bowls on them, so their policy of selling bowls separate is just to make more money.

And as you say, they've shot themselves in the foot. What is remarkable is that the Jet, most likely the cheapest lantern they make, is actually fast turning into their flagship luminaire... I believe the optic is adjustable, which gives it an advantage over the Opalo; it can come with a post top adaptor and the reflector is more accurate. I will be able to give a better evaluation of the Jet next week, after I have hopefully taken delivery of one... but other lanterns by Thorn had optics that were OK but weren't cutting edge. The Alpha 4 did form main beams but couldn't hold a candle to the MA series; The Alpha 2000 and Riviera's optics are the same as an Urbis ZX2 or 3, and this came at a time when other manufacturers were releasing things like the Arc and Vectra (both with computer aided designed reflectors); and even their modern Beta 2/5 lanterns seem like a bit of a limp shadow of their former glory. Thorn released the Oracle, their attempt to get a foothold in the egg-shaped lantern market, years after the Arc and Iridium had long taken hold, and in fact you could argue just at a point where some specifiers were going towards ordering more squared lanterns (Look at Redcar PFI - the staple lanterns for minor roads are the Libra and 2Tone)
Author:  Urbis Saturn Land [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
I thought Urbis was expensive, looks like Thorn is following the trend.
Author:  Gramma6 [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
It seems that whereas, in days gone by, Thorn (or Atlas/AEI) were the leaders in the lighting industry with innovative lanterns like the Alpha 1, Alpha 3, Beta 9 and Gamma 1/2 they now follow the crowd. Another thing that ruined their reputation was the poor build-quality of their lanterns from the late 80s onwards. GRP Beta 79s and Alpha 8s leaked, Alpha 4s and Beta 2/5s lost their bowls and Gamma 6s were easily-vandalised. The lanterns that replaced these models were mostly uninspiring and seemed cheap, like the Riga with it's terrible glare problem and the boring-looking Alpha 2000 which some people claim are tough but many couldn't cope with Blackpool's seafront and as a result the original installation of them there in 1996 is now probably more than half casual replacements of various types (mostly the much-tougher Vectra). Recently though it seems the tide is turning with the Jet and Celest in particular getting good reviews on here and having attractive designs (if slightly quirky in the case of the Jet but nothing wrong with that). I hope this continues as Thorn made some cracking lanterns back in the day and it's a shame to see them lose out to the likes of Phillips.
Author:  mazeteam [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
Indeed... When I got a couple of Gamma 6's, the engineer actually said "those are quite expensive when new" - which suprised me when you consider, as you say, they are prone to damage from vandals - and the optics aren't exactly modern now; a WRTL 2000 can provide better light distribution along a road. The china hat Gamma 6 I got was full of dead insects, and considering the work I had to do to get the canopy to fit and form a seal against particle ingress I think it had never been IP65 rated (despite the label) from the day it was built. Other lanterns like the Vectra have a cable gland in the spigot which can be tightened to for a seal and prevent the good old column spiders from making a home inside the lanterns -  but the gamma 6 only has a fine piece of gauze... and this looks fine when the lantern is displayed, but as soon as you push a cable into the lantern this pushes the gauze out of the way and then the spiders can get in!

The Jet looks like an upside down blimp/airship/barrage balloon, but gives what looks like better optical performance than an Opalo. They must be decent if they can be used on 10m columns running a 57W PL-T lamp and not appear dim! I may get my Jet in the post tomorrow or Thursday, so pics will get uploaded in due time.
Author:  Gramma6 [ Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Modern lantern design discussion
mazeteam wrote:
Indeed... When I got a couple of Gamma 6's, the engineer actually said "those are quite expensive when new" - which suprised me when you consider, as you say, they are prone to damage from vandals - and the optics aren't exactly modern now; a WRTL 2000 can provide better light distribution along a road. The china hat Gamma 6 I got was full of dead insects, and considering the work I had to do to get the canopy to fit and form a seal against particle ingress I think it had never been IP65 rated (despite the label) from the day it was built. Other lanterns like the Vectra have a cable gland in the spigot which can be tightened to for a seal and prevent the good old column spiders from making a home inside the lanterns -  but the gamma 6 only has a fine piece of gauze... and this looks fine when the lantern is displayed, but as soon as you push a cable into the lantern this pushes the gauze out of the way and then the spiders can get in!


Yeah the Gamma 6 is very poor by modern standards. I was amazed they were still in production until 2003! In the 70s and 80s they were insanely popular. As a kid I even had a 'Mr. Chimney-Pot' toy house which had a model version of one in the garden!  :lol:  :oops:

There are still loads of them in Blackpool and all the roads they're on are all quite poorly-lit at night. The Gamma 6 is one of those old-school group B lanterns that lights the area around the column very brightly but then leaves a massive dark patch until you get to the next lantern. The WRTL 2000, as you say, is far superior and I've never yet seen one damaged by vandals despite some being in quite rough areas of town. Is the Gamma Basique really any improvement? I've never been under any at night. They look just like a Gamma 6 with a scarf wrapped around it's neck to me!  :lol:

Quote:
The Jet looks like an upside down blimp/airship/barrage balloon, but gives what looks like better optical performance than an Opalo. They must be decent if they can be used on 10m columns running a 57W PL-T lamp and not appear dim! I may get my Jet in the post tomorrow or Thursday, so pics will get uploaded in due time.


Neither the Opalo or the Jet have seen any use in my local area yet, which seems strange when you think of how cheap they are.
Page 4 of 8 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/