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South Coast PFI
http://ukastle.co.uk/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16		 Page 77 of 79
Author:  sotonsteve [ Tue Apr 26, 2022 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
I've not seen any further information relating to Lee-on-the-Solent, but evidently there is something going on, because why would bulk lantern replacements occur otherwise?

Axia 3 is definitely the preferred lantern of choice at present for casual replacements, whereas on recent schemes I've seen Luma Gen2s.

As for other news, there was a meeting on 10th March 2022. The timeline for LED replacements (which was approx 12,000 higher powered units, i.e. on main roads) has shifted to 2022, 2023 and 2024 financial years. However, they note that there could be further delays, and have not ruled out scrapping the idea but potentially proceeding with smaller scale projects in the future.

It seems the recent changes to dimming regimes link in with all this. They've dimmed lighting further as a mitigation, as a way to make savings which didn't materialise due to delays with the LED project. Interestingly, they have calculated that dimming residential lighting further would save £291,509 per year, whilst dimming main roads further would save £202,706 per year. I say that's interesting, because consider how many residential lighting units there are compared with main road lighting units. Ignoring gear losses and assuming percentage dimming is proportional to power consumption; going from 45% dimming to 65% dimming on a 36W Libra would be like going from 20W to 13W, whereas going from 25% dimming to 40% dimming on a 150W Iridium would be like going from 113W to 90W, so typically you might estimate that dimming a typical main road lantern would save three times the power compared with dimming a typical residential lantern. But as I say, these are crude calculations.
Author:  sotonsteve [ Mon Jul 11, 2022 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
Probably should have mentioned last year when it happened, but SSE Contracting is now known as Enerveo, so certainly the vans that go round servicing the street lighting now have different branding.
Author:  sotonsteve [ Fri Nov 25, 2022 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
We are heading towards the first winter since Hampshire increased its dimming regime such that, for example, compact fluorescent is dimmed by 65% not just in the dead of night but also at dusk. This evening, temperatures have been a bit chilly (about 4C), but not freezing. The impact on compact fluorescent lighting has been noticeable to myself, as it has been previously. However, I went past a road with 24W PL-L lamps, and they were really struggling in their dimmed state, to the point that a couple in the road were flickering. Not great.
Author:  Chezo [ Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
As you mentioned about Hampshire's  dimmed Libras, I struggle to see why they don't take a leaf out of Surrey highways book (maintained by milestone inf)  and retrofit their stock of Libras.

From discussion with Surrey CC, the retrofits cost less than £80 per unit, including a new node, and phillips electronic gear.   

With Hampshire having 100,000 Libras in service, they would be able to achieve a good bulk deal even if they need both sizes.

DW Windsor I'm sure would be able to supply Hampshire over a period of 2-3 years.

The LED retrofits according to Surrey have had no failures and they have about 60,000 installed now.

Hampshire wouldn't even need to replace the node, just plug and play. They may need to re-calibrate the node that's all.

The retrofits use 15W of power versus the 55W PL lamps - I understand Hampshire don't operate their lights at full output.

It has to be said due to the nature of the Libra lantern installation would be less than a minute rather than perhaps 10 for a new lantern.


I've weighed up Pros & Cons for each.


Pros.

1. Would be much cheaper than installing even the cheapest purpose built LED
2. Much quicker to install
3. Less waste to dispose of
4. Better light control
5. Much less energy consumed
6. No need for re-lamps
7. Faster payback (within 2-3 years versus 5+ for other options)
8. Better dimming than with PL - no flickering
9. Equipment gets a 'second' life - resourceful as the lights are meant to last for 25 years.

Cons
1. Premature failure by heat issues  
2. Water ingress from 12 year old fixtures is more likely
3. The hardware is obsolete so if a lantern had a smashed bowl this would likely cause the LEDs to fail.
4. Issues may surround around light spread and glare - a decrease in light quality


Overall I feel like the pros outweigh the cons by a long way.  

In terms of the Arcs and Iridiums i'd replace them in 2025 time - time for one more re-lamp. The Arcs I'd replace for dw Windsors Kirium eco and the Irdiums the Kirium pros.

Here are 2 photos which show what Surrey have done.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13dWrl3 ... share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PPfLtJ ... share_link

I await for your views :D . :)
Author:  Phosco152 [ Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
Where does Hampshire find the £8m (your figures) to replace the Libras to save 8W per lantern? Again your LED power consumption costs and 0.65 x 36W for the dimming figure for a Libra. The actual cost is far greater when you add in the labour.

For Surrey the savings were higher given Libras were run at 55W, with little dimming and not the part night that Hampshire also now use.

It makes more sense to replace the higher energy use lanterns - the Iridums and the Arcs, of which the latter use expensive Cosmo lamps. You aren't going to be able to replace those for £80 each.

Finally you need to understand the difference between capital cost budget and running expenditure.
Author:  sotonsteve [ Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
Phosco152 wrote:
Where does Hampshire find the £8m (your figures) to replace the Libras to save 8W per lantern? Again your LED power consumption costs and 0.65 x 36W for the dimming figure for a Libra. The actual cost is far greater when you add in the labour.

For Surrey the savings were higher given Libras were run at 55W, with little dimming and not the part night that Hampshire also now use.

It makes more sense to replace the higher energy use lanterns - the Iridums and the Arcs, of which the latter use expensive Cosmo lamps. You aren't going to be able to replace those for £80 each.

Finally you need to understand the difference between capital cost budget and running expenditure.


It's lesser difference than that. Hampshire don't dim the Libras to 65%, they dim them by 65%. As such, your typical 36W Libra in Hampshire already uses less power than the Libra LED retrofits in Surrey, and for a 55W Libra variant the saving would only be about 4W.
Author:  Chezo [ Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: South coast PFI
West Sussex are to install LED Axia 3s starting in the next month. Shame even PFIs aren’t even safe with their original planned equipment. I understand that energy costs now are unbearable to even council with LEDs so with older technology must be ridiculous. West Sussex didn’t use a CMS when doing their first PFI which has allowed others like Hampshire to dim their lights – extending their usefulness.

It makes me sad to think about the wasted electronics and the initial carbon footprint to make and import these lights. Presuming it’s mostly cost focus none the less supporting British manufacturing to make these light such as Phosco, ASD, Holophane, DW Windsor & Indo for example would make the replacement program slightly more preferred.  However, I hope West Sussex get a fast payback on their lights in this energy crisis. Lastly hopefully these LEDs won’t be replaced anytime soon for something that could wipe out LEDs – here is to perhaps the next 20+ years!
Author:  Phosco152 [ Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: South coast PFI
Chezo wrote:
West Sussex are to install LED Axia 3s starting in the next month. Shame even PFIs aren’t even safe with their original planned equipment. I understand that energy costs now are unbearable to even council with LEDs so with older technology must be ridiculous. West Sussex didn’t use a CMS when doing their first PFI which has allowed others like Hampshire to dim their lights – extending their usefulness.

It makes me sad to think about the wasted electronics and the initial carbon footprint to make and import these lights. Presuming it’s mostly cost focus none the less supporting British manufacturing to make these light such as Phosco, ASD, Holophane, DW Windsor & Indo for example would make the replacement program slightly more preferred.  However, I hope West Sussex get a fast payback on their lights in this energy crisis. Lastly hopefully these LEDs won’t be replaced anytime soon for something that could wipe out LEDs – here is to perhaps the next 20+ years!


Moved here as West Sussex was and always has been part of the South Coast PFI and has been referred to as such on Ukastle.

Whilst West Sussex didn't use a CMS they did have and retained, part night lighting in residential areas, which actually saves far more power than the dimming regime that is now in use in Hampshire. The lack of CMS will have also saved West Sussex many £100ks by allowing them to use cheaper nodes/cells and avoiding software licence fees.

British manufacturerers don't necessarily make their lanterns in the UK. No British manufacturer could supply the quantity of lanterns required by the South Coast PFI, and there was an element of commonality of lanterns between the counties. The old lanterns will be fully recycled even the electronics.
Author:  Sonsoxman [ Fri Jul 14, 2023 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: South Coast PFI
On Elles Road in Farnborough some Phillips Iridiums were replaced with Philips Luma gen2.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2871037 ... 04&g_st=ic

Same thing happened on on a roundabout on Petersfield Road in Bordon.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZjsrJR1Rg8NEA3nq5?g_st=ic

The newish Bordon bypass is lit Philips Luma gen1 but looks like one of them failed and was replaced by an Iridium. https://maps.app.goo.gl/YyZ5mEWNKb4CUgsU8?g_st=ic

On Royal Drive one last Urbis ZXU1 remain. https://maps.app.goo.gl/9gtLGt2Usrbxo8QJ6?g_st=ic

Oakhanger Road has some newly installed Schreder Axia3s. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.1187567 ... 04&g_st=ic

On a footpath behind some houses on Pinehurst Avenue Farnborough  a MI26 still survives https://maps.app.goo.gl/5F2fUvhzZCBrGuJq9?g_st=ic

Honington Mews and surrounding streets are lit with grey Indal Arc as well as white Philips iridium.
Which is weird as the council’s logo appear on the street signs. Has it been adopted or not? https://maps.app.goo.gl/2sVW28parCGeaZn59?g_st=ic
Same thing with De Havilland Road. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2754558 ... 04&g_st=ic Funny thing about that estate it has a Centrifuge in the middle of the new houses.

Kingsmead still has Urbis Sapphire 2 from pre PFI. https://maps.app.goo.gl/QmYj6KsapZEwpbjc7?g_st=ic

Lime Street Roundabout in Aldershot has a pole with 4 Phillips SGS203 surviving. https://maps.app.goo.gl/r3JkoYE1FEqfSdMs6?g_st=ic

Auchinleck Way has PFI Libras on quite old look columns which weren’t replaced during the PFI.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/vy1utNpBWcnJVxPN9?g_st=ic

Nearby some old post top GEC survive. https://maps.app.goo.gl/BJs9yZCDd6yLpJ5x5?g_st=ic

Turgis Way Fleet has Urbis Sapphire 1. https://maps.app.goo.gl/pSUrevHdPb9t8Fsa7?g_st=ic
As well as St Swithins Road. https://maps.app.goo.gl/sQKRLu3YqAacMKZN7?g_st=ic

Lasham Road lost it’s Sapphire 2s for Axia 3.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/NNaCP1JHnTBefaNz8?g_st=ic
Marwell Road still had them as of April 2023. https://maps.app.goo.gl/JgYwSywaePeZetM27?g_st=ic The area was built in around 2001/2002 and Sapphire 1 was released in 2003 so the bigger sapphires 2 was used.

Some streets also use heritage lanterns which are probably Urbis Albany like Turners Avenue. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2931902 ... 04&g_st=ic

Urbis ZX2 still survives on the Shell station on A3013. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2932245 ... 04&g_st=ic As well as one outside the BMW UK headquarters on A327. https://maps.app.goo.gl/gEvFq3gPmqLnowk39?g_st=ic

A new build estate in Fleet was adopted and lost ZXU1 for Philips Luma gen2. https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2819068 ... 04&g_st=ic

Thorn Gamma 6 on Elles Close Farnborough. https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZjeAvEgWkWtbM7qY7?g_st=ic  
Quite interesting that Hampshire County  
Council are using two different lanterns from two different manufacturers as replacements.
Author:  Sonsoxman [ Sat Jul 15, 2023 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: South coast PFI
Chezo wrote:
West Sussex are to install LED Axia 3s starting in the next month. Shame even PFIs aren’t even safe with their original planned equipment. I understand that energy costs now are unbearable to even council with LEDs so with older technology must be ridiculous. West Sussex didn’t use a CMS when doing their first PFI which has allowed others like Hampshire to dim their lights – extending their usefulness.

It makes me sad to think about the wasted electronics and the initial carbon footprint to make and import these lights. Presuming it’s mostly cost focus none the less supporting British manufacturing to make these light such as Phosco, ASD, Holophane, DW Windsor & Indo for example would make the replacement program slightly more preferred.  However, I hope West Sussex get a fast payback on their lights in this energy crisis. Lastly hopefully these LEDs won’t be replaced anytime soon for something that could wipe out LEDs – here is to perhaps the next 20+ years!


Are they? As I couldn’t find any information apart from that they were considering it back in 2019. Have they started as there is no info or updates on West Sussex County Council’s website nor on Lights on in West Sussex nor on any local  news site.

If they have started where about are they replacing and which lantern are they replacing. Pre PFI lanterns or all lantern. What about the Libras are they being kept as is, converted to LED or replaced? I know you published this back in December so by now you would have some updates from the council or even on this site.
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