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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Noticed in Glasgow that many old metal columns with overhead wire feeds have a replacement column planted next to them. Pollokshaws road, Carmunnock road, so the end is nigh.


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:45 pm 
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Does anyone know anything about the current lighting project happening in Edinburgh?


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2020 9:23 pm 
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I did a rail trip around Scotland in September 2018 and had some time to spend in Glasgow, so explored the Pollokshaws area. It was impressive to see the impressive array of concrete columns, although some were in very poor condition and needed replacing. Photos were just taken on my phone so the quality isn't great. *Caution - Image Heavy*

This concrete column was in very bad condition, with a cable tie holding the concrete together!
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Another example, with spalling just below the bracket, as well as the bracket joint itself.
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Another example, in better condition. Note the likely original lantern.
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Another example spalling at the bracket.
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I've lost touch with older lantern IDs but I would guess these are from the 50s. Nearly unspoilt apart from one Thorn Celeste
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Another type of concrete column with a square base and impressive bracket, this time with a side entry Z9454
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Another example with an Eleco GR150
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An example fitted with a Tamlite lantern, Glasgow seemed to use this as a casual replacement lantern until a few years ago. Although it is exaggerated by the camera angle, the column was leaning forward considerably.
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Another example with likely original Eleco(? or Phosco) lantern.
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I assume these are CU Avenue columns. Also never seen these brackets anywhere before either. It appears that open lanterns were original to these installations.
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Six survivors in a row at the time the photo was taken.
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Thorn Alpha 4 missing its bowl and gear cover and as a result, looks very flat.
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Another spalling bracket that needed replacing.
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This time, the column is in good condition but less can be said for the lantern, a Z9455.
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Google thinks that many of these installations (except a run of the crumbling Avenue columns/brackets) are still there in 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 7:33 am 
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Wow, some cracking finds there.


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Indust wrote:
I did a rail trip around Scotland in September 2018 and had some time to spend in Glasgow, so explored the Pollokshaws area. It was impressive to see the impressive array of concrete columns, although some were in very poor condition and needed replacing. Photos were just taken on my phone so the quality isn't great. *Caution - Image Heavy*

This concrete column was in very bad condition, with a cable tie holding the concrete together!


Another example, with spalling just below the bracket, as well as the bracket joint itself.


Another example, in better condition. Note the likely original lantern.


Another example spalling at the bracket.


I've lost touch with older lantern IDs but I would guess these are from the 50s. Nearly unspoilt apart from one Thorn Celeste

Another type of concrete column with a square base and impressive bracket, this time with a side entry Z9454


Another example with an Eleco GR150

An example fitted with a Tamlite lantern, Glasgow seemed to use this as a casual replacement lantern until a few years ago. Although it is exaggerated by the camera angle, the column was leaning forward considerably.


Another example with likely original Eleco(? or Phosco) lantern.




I assume these are CU Avenue columns. Also never seen these brackets anywhere before either. It appears that open lanterns were original to these installations.


Six survivors in a row at the time the photo was taken.


Thorn Alpha 4 missing its bowl and gear cover and as a result, looks very flat.


Another spalling bracket that needed replacing.


This time, the column is in good condition but less can be said for the lantern, a Z9455.




Google thinks that many of these installations (except a run of the crumbling Avenue columns/brackets) are still there in 2019.


I've snipped the images to save scrolling.

It looks like you went to the same areas I did in around 2014/2015 - Herries Road, St Andrews Drive, various areas around the affluent south and south western side suburbs. It was an absolute treasure trove of concrete and 50+ year old sodium lanterns so good to see that a lot of it is/was still there.

I don't know if it was due to severe budget restraints or a common sense approach but many parts of Glasgow I went through seemed to have a re-use where possible approach to street lighting. If something was serviceable it would be re-lamped and the definition of serviceable was often stretched to allowing the use of cable ties or in some cases duct tape to hold the thing together. Older HPS lanterns in the city centre were regularly relamped with whiter metal halide (though I think the CC has now since been glorified with LED) and there certainly appeared to be little tolerance for waste.

Glasgow has had a very interesting history of street/area lighting, with a lot of early electric installations being bolted to the tramline poles, hence all the overhead wiring. The last gas installations of lighting used in tenement hallways dated as recently as the 1970s according to a newspaper cutting I found.

A true gem and relic of the past may still remain on an old overgrown path off Maxwell Road, with these fantastic wartime style "upside down dustbin lid" incandescent lanterns, you can just see one in this google street view: https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8431407 ... 312!8i6656

I went over one day and took some photos, mercifully the access into the old lane was not restricted. Many of those brackets were (or maybe still are) used until very recently to hang off top mounted SOX lanterns, and the incandescent lantern in the picture was probably once widespread in Glasgow. My interest in it was massively heightened when I saw that same lantern in the background of an old family photo from the late 60s, and instantly recognised the same poles and brackets still present in some parts of the city today.

Image


I don't know much about incandescent street lighting so I'm not sure whether they'd have been say 300W lamps or the special series type which don't follow domestic standards.

A few years ago I moved down to England and while I have been able to fill my boots with surprising pockets of still working 180W SOX on parts of the motorways (and even some mercury) I have sorely missed the amazing street lighting scene in Glasgow.


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2020 3:25 pm 
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trencheel303 wrote:
Glasgow has had a very interesting history of street/area lighting, with a lot of early electric installations being bolted to the tramline poles, hence all the overhead wiring.


A true gem and relic of the past may still remain on an old overgrown path off Maxwell Road, with these fantastic wartime style "upside down dustbin lid" incandescent lanterns, you can just see one in this google street view: https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8431407 ... 312!8i6656

I don't know much about incandescent street lighting so I'm not sure whether they'd have been say 300W lamps or the special series type ...


Looking at the a more recent capture of this GSV, it looks like the lantern itself has either dropped off / been removed (from around 2015).

The prewar lanterns and equipment found in the city, were produced by Credenda Conduits Ltd of Birmingham. These were to the design and specifications of the Glasgow Corporation's Lighting department (under the auspices of Messrs Ward & Mann). They lasted for a surprising amount of time, before the huge influx of SO/H lanterns in the 1950 / 60s replaced them (although it is apparent that small pockets of GLS lanterns survived until recent times, albeit long out of use).

One such product was introduced in 1937 which was designed to 'clip inside' the numerous RLM type reflectors found in the city. I think this would be the 'dustbin type' GLS lanterns to which you refer.

Turning to the surviving installations in the area, the widespread use of the overhead feeds, was born out of the need to provide streetlighting that was economical to both install and maintain (especially important when the expansion of the 1930s housing estates was in full swing).

The electricity / tramway undertakings were all part of the mighty Glasgow Corporation, therefore by avoiding the need to dig up the pavements to lay / repair cables, great savings would be afforded to the benefit of the ratepayer. Overhead cables were also easily accessible to maintain and repair. Only areas of civic importance were spared the visual intrusion.

The general public were long accustomed to the geometric 'web' of overhead cables as used by the tram and trolleybus routes, therefore the use of overhead cables on residential streets, would have aroused little opposition at the time.

Even in modern times, Glasgow has managed to keep much of its postwar lighting installations in service, as a result of a long standing 'make do and mend' policy.

The use of the same overhead cables system to supply the old tubular steel / concrete columns (and their galv' steel replacements in more recent times), illustrates how economical the Glasgow policy has turned out to be.

As to how long this will continue to be the case, will depend on the future expansion /  redevelopment of the city and its surrounding districts.

Despite the reintroduction of trams in numerous UK cities, the imposition of what can be jarringly functional OHLE is less likely to be tolerated these days, especially in residential areas.

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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:47 am 
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GreatNorburyStDepot wrote:
trencheel303 wrote:
Glasgow has had a very interesting history of street/area lighting, with a lot of early electric installations being bolted to the tramline poles, hence all the overhead wiring.


A true gem and relic of the past may still remain on an old overgrown path off Maxwell Road, with these fantastic wartime style "upside down dustbin lid" incandescent lanterns, you can just see one in this google street view: https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8431407 ... 312!8i6656

I don't know much about incandescent street lighting so I'm not sure whether they'd have been say 300W lamps or the special series type ...


Looking at the a more recent capture of this GSV, it looks like the lantern itself has either dropped off / been removed (from around 2015).

The prewar lanterns and equipment found in the city, were produced by Credenda Conduits Ltd of Birmingham. These were to the design and specifications of the Glasgow Corporation's Lighting department (under the auspices of Messrs Ward & Mann). They lasted for a surprising amount of time, before the huge influx of SO/H lanterns in the 1950 / 60s replaced them (although it is apparent that small pockets of GLS lanterns survived until recent times, albeit long out of use).


I think we must've read the same newspaper clipping! Indeed, that company you mentioned then became "Creda" I believe which is still about today. As for the lantern, the GSV footage is misleading. I went there in 2016 and a few of them were still on the poles, just that the closest one was bereft of its fitting. I didn't actually think to have a good mooch around in the grass as I could very well have found the lantern. If I still lived there I'd go back and look as it's an interesting bit of history. I suspect the land they were on once housed a factory or some such, as there are other more modern lanterns off to the side that have a bizarre placement (seemingly in the middle of an empty space) - Thorn Precincts. It's also worth noting that in the picture I posted the M74 motorway extension in the background is a relatively recent addition and so wouldn't have existed when these lanterns were contemporary either. Finally, the lack of total overgrowth on the cobbled lane suggests it may have been used in some capacity within the last few decades.


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:54 pm 
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I decided to do some more research having had my interest somewhat piqued again regarding the Maxwell Road site discussed prior.

looking on 2009 street view, it turns out there was a building on site:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Maxwe ... -4.2691573

It was also there on the 2012, but gone by 2014. I googled and found that it was likely a former Virgin media office, although this article isn't dated it fits because in the street view images you can see a big antenna out back:
https://www.centraldemolition.co.uk/cas ... well-road/

Further googling revealed a thread on hidden Scotland that it was indeed an NTL/Virgin media building.
http://hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtop ... f=3&t=8255

Further anecdotes down the thread make suggestions that prior to this it may have been a Scottish Gas building, but I have a feeling this was something separate. What does seem to be confirmed though is that this site was once that of Etna Foundry of Milan Street... which it appears no longer exists (the street, that is. The foundry definitely doesn't!).

Now, while a fair bit of this is just anecdotal, it does "fit". This useful image also shows what I believe to be the same cobblestone path that exists today, beside the railway line and you can indeed see just poking in at the right of the image one of the same lanterns.
https://canmore.org.uk/collection/591629

Now, here's a real brain buster. Judging by the angle and depth of the shadows cast I reckon this was a summertime picture taken early afternoon, and as the sun always lies slightly to the south in the northern hemisphere that means the shadows point north and therefore this image is taken roughly facing the west as the shadows here are pointing somewhat north, north west - I think. Therefore it isn't the same spot that I stood in, but rather further down and around the site nearer the top railway line.

I have to say I am somewhat perplexed as to what this "Milan Street" is, I can't find any useful references to it online and even a search of old maps from the 1930s don't show it.
https://www.oldmapsonline.org/en/Glasgo ... &scale_to=

My only guess is this is it
https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8434021 ... 384!8i8192

Given that the demolition of the former NTL/Virgin building was a contract undertaken by a house builder it would then seem fitting that homes are now being built here.

Anyway, to summarise it was once a foundry site, then that of a gasworks (possibly) then NTL/Virgin media. And like so many places it is now empty and decaying, with homes being built at one side and overshadowed by the M74 motorway extension which was erected about a decade ago and rips through Tradeston.


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:12 pm 
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trencheel303 wrote:
GreatNorburyStDepot wrote:
trencheel303 wrote:
Glasgow has had a very interesting history of street/area lighting, with a lot of early electric installations being bolted to the tramline poles, hence all the overhead wiring.


A true gem and relic of the past may still remain on an old overgrown path off Maxwell Road, with these fantastic wartime style "upside down dustbin lid" incandescent lanterns, you can just see one in this google street view: https://www.google.com/maps/@55.8431407 ... 312!8i6656

I don't know much about incandescent street lighting so I'm not sure whether they'd have been say 300W lamps or the special series type ...


Looking at the a more recent capture of this GSV, it looks like the lantern itself has either dropped off / been removed (from around 2015).

The prewar lanterns and equipment found in the city, were produced by Credenda Conduits Ltd of Birmingham. These were to the design and specifications of the Glasgow Corporation's Lighting department (under the auspices of Messrs Ward & Mann). They lasted for a surprising amount of time, before the huge influx of SO/H lanterns in the 1950 / 60s replaced them (although it is apparent that small pockets of GLS lanterns survived until recent times, albeit long out of use).


I think we must've read the same newspaper clipping!


Not so much a newspaper clipping, but I find Mr Cornwell's website extremely useful in situations like this.

The photograph via Canmore.org, certainly looks to be the same GLS lantern you describe.

When you consider your average GLS lamp lasted around 1000 hrs, the chaps with the ladders must have been kept extremely busy during this time.

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"I can't think what you want to go to London for, you won't find any better lampposts there..."
L.S. Lowry. 1887-1976.


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 Post subject: Re: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:17 pm 
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GreatNorburyStDepot wrote:
When you consider your average GLS lamp lasted around 1000 hrs, the chaps with the ladders must have been kept extremely busy during this time.


depends what they used. I know in the US they had special lamps for the series installations that had different specs to ordinary domestic lamps and I think had more realistic lifetimes... don't quote me on it though.

But yes, assuming they were just your standard 2-300 Watt or maybe even 500 Watt lamp then it'd have kept the maintenance guys busy, and quite rightly too. the metals and glass from the GLS lamp can be recycled of course and it helps keep an economy going. I suspect the "fit and forget for 15 years until the entire fixture breaks due to a leak and needs scrapping" doesn't quite have the same effect, though.


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