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PostPosted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Hi All,

The LED march is still going strong in Cumbria with lots of old lanterns being taken down and new LEDs going up in their place. Here is a strange setup in Whitehaven where the old lanterns have been removed and new LED lanterns fitted on Concrete columns.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.55954 ... 312!8i6656

Shame to see such relics as this making way for the LED massacre. I believe this to be an Eleco SR304
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.54374 ... 312!8i6656

I had some sad news last week that this Gem has been scrapped.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.63884 ... 312!8i6656

and another one further down the same street!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.63807 ... 312!8i6656

This top entry Eleco has also gone
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.82494 ... 312!8i6656

A lovely old Beta 4 in Anthorn has also gone :(
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.91566 ... 312!8i6656

But the biggest loss of them all was this internally geared Eleco GR501
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.86355 ... 312!8i6656

Regards,

Andrew.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:41 am 
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What is this obsession with LED? Its not just street lighting but all lighting being replaced, with claims of "25 years life" or 50,000hrs life, despite the fact some have failed in just 2 years - only around halfway through a SOX lamps life, and probably less than halfway through a well made SON lamps life.

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Last edited by Beta 5 on Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:07 pm 
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Beta 5 wrote:
What is this obsession with LED?
The higher lumens per watt with LEDs isn't the only factor that makes the difference -  the optical control of most LED luminaires means that far less light is wasted compared to HID solutions, again reducing power needed to illuminate a road to acceptable levels. LEDs have far greater longevity also, rivaling MBF and induction lamps, though some luminaires are less reliable than others.

The only factor that bugs me is that only white LEDs are economical to use, all the other colours remove the efficiency advantages, and none of them are fully monochromatic either. I'm hoping that laser diodes can offer an alternative for monochromatic colours at a similar efficiency, in similar luminaires.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Paianni wrote:
Beta 5 wrote:
What is this obsession with LED?
...only white LEDs are economical to use, all the other colours remove the efficiency advantages, and none of them are fully monochromatic either.


I apologise if the topic has slid away from North West Discussion, therefore I'll keep it brief.

Although LEDs have proved to be useful lightsources (at least in the short term anyway), the assumption that white LEDs are more economical over other colours, is probably based more on what the general public has been programmed to perceive as best, compared to  "those dim, orange streetlights".

When low pressure sodium was introduced from the 30s, the key attraction was the excellent efficacy over gas and GLS lamps. The fact that colour rendition was not seen as important, must have carried huge sway when you consider how much of the UK was ultimately lit by it, especially from the 1960s onwards.

In this age of constant surveillance due to cctv as well as social media uploads,  monochromatic lighting at night is now no longer seen as desirable / fashionable. With the increased incidence of civil disturbance, it comes as no surprise that LED's white light is seen by many as the only tool for fighting those crimes of the darkness.

The problem though, is that whilst LED has brought numerous benefits to our towns and cities, such as lower running costs etc, there is one aspect which has not materialised - the equality of LED light.

The equality of  LED light? It could be an alien concept, so here is my theory.

LED streetlights have been heavily promoted as offering "more for less for longer" ie more lumens for less Watts for a long time.

Ok, fair enough and I will concede that there have been some awful installations of SOX and SON, which have been remarkably improved with LED, so in that respect I have no problems.

My observation though is where the proud, civic centres are lit with copious quantities of LEDs, providing almost television studio quality lighting (and probably producing more CO2 than the old scheme), whilst those roads and streets on the outskirts have to fumble along through the night with more measly pickings (assuming they stay on that long).

The downward adjustment in BS5489 to make white light more viable, means that whilst it may look better than SOX or SON, the amount of it is probably less and this would be more notable in residential areas. There have been plenty of reports in the papers about hostility to LED, regardless of their eco prowess.

Additionally, LED lanterns will only provide a cut off distribution. Whilst good for energy bills, directing the publicly funded light to just where it is needed means the surrounding streetscene is left in the dark. Add a good line of trees or poor spacings into the equation and the result is very gloomy indeed.

Surely, the advantages of good LED (including its design and installation) should be spread a little wider, beyond those areas that bring in the money!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Hi All,

I am out and about in Penrith today and came across an Atlas Beta 5 with three part bowl. Unfortunately it has lost its back section.

I can imagine once the lamp fails it will be replaced with an LED.

Regards,

Andrew.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:42 am 
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Hi All,

Here is a photo of the beta 5 with three(2) piece bowl.


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20170701_143054-1195x2124.jpg
20170701_143054-1195x2124.jpg [ 732.55 KiB | Viewed 11534 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Stockport in Cheshire has been a stronghold for SOX for many years, however in recent times, the 90 and 135W lamps have been all but eliminated from the borough's main roads in favour of Cosmops and a centralised computer management network.

Side streets surprisingly have for the most part still retained their concrete mounted SOX, although there was a fair investment in the 80s to phase out timeclocks in favour of PECs, with column sleeving or replacement undertaken in many areas. Philips MI50s and Beta 5s were popular choices and most still remain in service.

In the 90s, new / replacement installations used 6m stainless steel columns and this continues to this day. Until fairly recently, Philips MI36s were used on these installations, however Holophane's QSS lantern has been now slowly appearing in service both on new and as casual replacements.

Despite the introduction of alternatives, SOX on side roads is still fairly widespread, especially around Bredbury and Romiley. I do suspect that Stockport will be forced into phasing SOX out in the future once lamp stocks dry up, however I am wondering whether something other than QSS is being considered instead?

What I have noticed is that several of the CU and Stanton & Staveley columns, have recently been sleeved up to 6m rather than replaced outright. The interesting thing is that the existing SOX lanterns have been refitted onto the modified column. This might be down to stock supply issues or perhaps that another lantern choice is being earmarked in the near future ie LED.

Either way, it is good that SOX will remain in operation (for the short term anyway).


Attachments:
File comment: Once lit by SOX, Stockport's main roads are mostly under computer control and bathed in white light. Only a few areas retain 90W SOX, however even here, the QSS lantern is beginning to take over.
bre6.jpg
bre6.jpg [ 102.99 KiB | Viewed 11510 times ]
File comment: Typical of Stockport's older column which still survive in some quantity is the Stanton 7A. The majority were sleeved in the early 80s, however a few escaped the axe and still retain their original brackets. In its role as a casual replacement, a 6m stainless steel column lurks in the background.
bre4.jpg
bre4.jpg [ 138.71 KiB | Viewed 11510 times ]
File comment: Many of the concrete columns in the Bredbury area retain their original brackets. The majority are 1960s Concrete Utilities and Stanton & Staveley products. The columns originally had Amber Minors / Beta 5s controlled by Sangamo timeswitches. The Philips MI50 was part of a large scale investment in the mid 80s to eliminate these old workhorses. Despite the cull, a few of these lanterns remained "on the clock" until 2015, whilst another survivor is still in active service!
bre7.jpg
bre7.jpg [ 114.2 KiB | Viewed 11510 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:06 pm 
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Hi All,

I hope everyone is well.

This weekend I have been in Manchester for a family get together. The hotel I was stopping in at the top of Dean's Gate was opposite a bridge, under the bridge I was amazed to see SOX lighting. In an area full of led and metal halide it's nice to see SOX lighting. The lanterns were GEC and the columns were concrete.

It looks like the lanterns are controlled with P42 sensors, they must be a low Lux setting being under there otherwise they would be on all the time.

Regards,

Andrew.


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20170716_233929-2656x1494.jpg
20170716_233929-2656x1494.jpg [ 715.09 KiB | Viewed 11375 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:24 pm 
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Re: SOX lanterns under the bridge near Deansgate, Manchester.

Hi Andrew.

When I saw your picture, I had to have a good think as to where about this was, however as Deansgate pretty much has a railway viaduct at both ends, it was quite straightforward to locate. This is actually within the city of Salford. They still seem to have plenty of concrete around, although as you have indicated what SOX remains is now under threat, especially from LED. I managed to find this area on GSV, however the area was still undergoing redevlopment (or gentrification). Despite this, the SOX lanterns are in service. Its good to know there are still a few pockets of SOX still around. I have included a couple of images which show the same bridge, as well as some other areas of Salford City Centre, which have also seen some changes.


Attachments:
File comment: Here is the same location visited by Andrew, but during the redevelopment works. GEC 55W SOX lanterns were very common in the Salford area for many years, usually burning 35W lamps and installed on 5m concrete columns with quite a severe uplift on the bracket arm.
sal2.jpg
sal2.jpg [ 139.71 KiB | Viewed 11331 times ]
File comment: Under another portion of the same viaduct, it is likely the same type installation was also used. In more recent times however, the SOX lanterns have given way to LED under the City's "invest to save" programme. The LEDs struggle to do anything useful in this shot!
sal5.jpg
sal5.jpg [ 124.68 KiB | Viewed 11331 times ]
File comment: Salford City Centre used to have plenty of this combination - concrete column and steel bracket arm. The original lanterns were an unusual 180W SOX type, which still remain unidentified. In later years some routes were relit with these Eleco SON lanterns, although they may have initially been mercury burners.
sal3.jpg
sal3.jpg [ 124.89 KiB | Viewed 11331 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:28 pm 
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Hi all,

I have found a great blog on Flickr by a chap called Mark Bowerbank. He has uploaded lots of photographs of buses and trains over the years in various towns and inevitably these come with photographs of StreetLights. I spotted in one of his photos a great shot of the old Gamma 4s we used to have in Carlisle. We had three SON lanterns in the town center and five SOX lanterns in a Carpark. His link is https://www.flickr.com/photos/51738247@ ... 9184267919

Regards,

Andrew.


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Gamma4.png
Gamma4.png [ 1.65 MiB | Viewed 10947 times ]
Gamm4Sox.png
Gamm4Sox.png [ 1.52 MiB | Viewed 10947 times ]
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